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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject: Vigilantes Reply with quote

Vigilantes attack web scammers.

http://news.com.com/Vigilantes+launch+attack+on+scam+sites/2100-7349_3-5571061.html?tag=nefd.top
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trespasser
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting snippit.............

Unfortunately as soon as the attack stops, the scam machines will be back online very quickly...... Furthermore if local governments and polititians including the software industry and ISP's cannot or indeed will not do anything to stem the tide of scams / spyware / malaware we can look forward to perhaps more of these so called vigilante attacks.

People will do what they have to to get noticed and seek justice regardless of the means they have to use.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Among politicians practically everyone is on the take ... it's all about special interest groups and secret agenda's not whats good for the majority of the people and being upfront and honest.

It seems to me the U.S. government is fine with trojans and spyware rampaging the internet and even employs there uses themselves. It's the virus creators they bust ... at least the private citizens that write them they do.
Personally i can always buy a new hard drive on e-bay for 30 or 40 bucks if i get wasted by a virus, but it's going to cost substantially more if your a victim of something like identity theft or credit card fraud.

With the A.V. industry at a record 4.4. billion dollars in sales last year (not including spyware/trojan scanners) i wonder if alot of these security company's aren't behind a good portion of it ...
Thats alot of summer homes and yacht's to have in jeopardy if the internet suddenly became a virus free place.

Does anyone really think Kaspersky, Symantec, Trend Micro ...etc ... want to put an end to virus outbreaks and destroy their business at the same time? Nobody is that much of a humanitarian, especially not 4.4 billion dollars worth ... if they were they wouldn't be charging you out the yin yang to start with.

It's called propping up your industry.
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trespasser
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salient,

You have a good point, but its a point that has been around ever since the first virus and anti virus package. Sure anti virus companies would and can make substantial profits from the script kiddies out there but it will never be proved.

After all, its just a theory. I think it is listed on page 346 of the all time great conspiracy theories of the world........just after the theory that the roswell incident was a coverup.

Or put it another way, you could say that about the job I do. When I go to a customer and remove spyware from there machine in January, I have had to go back and perform the same operation in February. Would that mean that I am working for spyware companies or writing secret files that I leave on customers machines and execute them at will or by time limits. Of course it doesn't, it just means that I am making money from "ignorant" users and their machines.

The key to all this my friend comes down to 1 thing, EDUCATION !..

If a majority of home abusers payed attention to the people that work with machines for a living instead of getting advice from their barstool technicians there would be very few virus's passed from machine to machine and the internet may be a better place for us all. I'm not saying that it is the average home users fault but a "little knowledge" is a very dangerous thing my friend. However, bad advice can kill you.

Personally ....... and this is a personal comment. (imho)

If virus's and such were wiped out over night many things could happen.

1. This forum would not have as much content as it does now.
2. I would not make as much money doing what I do.
3. Anti virus manufacturers would not sell as many products and therefore may start making losses, which would lead to job losses and unemployment.
4. Microsofts developement team could get away with writing more sloppy software and would make even more money because they could afford to use cowboy programmers.

Ther are probably many more effects this would have but I am now having a blonde moment and have just run dry, but its worth thinking about.
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Warrior


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If a majority of home abusers payed attention to the people that work with machines for a living instead of getting advice from their barstool technicians there would be very few virus's passed from machine to machine and the internet may be a better place for us all. I'm not saying that it is the average home users fault but a "little knowledge" is a very dangerous thing my friend. However, bad advice can kill you.



True ... i essentially do the same thing in the city i live in for a company called PC on Call although i usually get the hardware failures ... people are usually their own worst enemy when it comes to security and everyday operation of their PC's. ... That's why i make my kids run Linux at home Wink i get sick of messing with Windows boxes all day that are essentially just magnets for attracting malicious code.

I still think an industry worth over 4 billion a year is going to do whatever it takes to stay a profitable business. (imo) ... to deny the fact that some conspiracy's can actually be reality is the equivalent of thinking all policemen are honest or car mechanics never do un-necessary work on your car ... human nature is tough to suppress no matter what hat you wear professionally.

Do i think that everyone that works for the AV company's are involved? ... no way. I don't even doubt the fact that all AV company's are even involved ... I also don't beleive Elvis is still alive or in the grassy knoll shooter and i am actually very non-conspiritist by nature.

These so called computer experts and security sites all over the net are largely just a front to create malicious code of some form or another. But on the flipside if your a top shelf "script kiddie" or write a particularly crippling and/or famous virus you can always count on getting a job with an AV company somewhwere ... but thats just an interestingly ironic coincidence.

I still remember when the internet first went from the government sector to the public (yea im an old geezer) even though it's nothing like it is now ... The U.S. government used to hold Expo's (by invite only) and hire the best hackers they could find of the lot to come and work for them and ... so were all the upstart AV company's.

There didn't used to be such a thing as Microsoft certified technicians ... there wasn't any schools to attend to learn this stuff like there is today and there was a huge shortfall of knowledgeable people ... You basically had to be a hacker to catch a hacker back then.

The foundations of alot of these company's that have been here since the beginning aren't what you think they are is my main point. AV's were originally created to catch bad coding in programs that resulted in an "accidental" virus being created ... but as coding got inherently better all the time the need for an AV would have diminished to almost nothing ... it's the man made strain that keeps them in business.
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trespasser
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salient,

What city would that be then ?

Quote:
I still think an industry worth over 4 billion a year is going to do whatever it takes to stay a profitable business. (imo) ... to deny the fact that some conspiracy's can actually be reality is the equivalent of thinking all policemen are honest or car mechanics never do un-necessary work on your car ... human nature is tough to suppress no matter what hat you wear professionally.


Yeah I see your point, anarchy would rule if you could prove it though ..... and imagine the price on your head if you did.......££££££££££'s ..... lol

Quote:
These so called computer experts and security sites all over the net are largely just a front to create malicious code of some form or another


Yeah , true you just have to look behind the scenes at a majority of the "free" pc scans and "popup stopper" software. Its a sad fact that so many people can be duped into running this crap...........but such is life. But hey , I just realised what I have said earlier about barstool technicians....... they are the salt of the earth really. If it wasn't for these guys and gals giving out bad or wrong information newbys wouldn't be making mistakes and "WE" would be out of a job........... do'h. Confused

Long live barstool technicians................................lol Wink
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Warrior


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What city would that be then ?

I grind out a living in Cincinnati ...

Quote:
If it wasn't for these guys and gals giving out bad or wrong information newbys wouldn't be making mistakes and "WE" would be out of a job.

Very true ... i get alot of people who can't resist downloading free software too - screensavers, weather crap, etc ...

I know i could never prove that AV company's are behind it and maybe most are legitimate ... but at the same time its a very lucrative biz and i am sure a virus free internet is the source of many nightmares for their CEO's.
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trespasser
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know i could never prove that AV company's are behind it and maybe most are legitimate ... but at the same time its a very lucrative biz and i am sure a virus free internet is the source of many nightmares for their CEO's.


Yep.......you and me are just two people that would be looking for something else to do, imagine the other 60 million in the world doing the same........ Shocked

########

Anyway, things could be progressing into real world privacy wars if this gets more popular.

http://www.nocards.org/

http://www.nocards.org/news/archive1.shtml#backdoor

Quote:
In the UK a woman answered a knock at her door only to find herself arrested and her house searched from top to bottom. Her crime? Placing her own scarf in her handbag. Store security caught the move on camera and mistakenly thought she had stolen the scarf, and then tracked her through her "loyalty" card (The article doesn't state why they
didn't just stop her in the store rather than wait two days to go to her house).

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wawadave
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
buy a new hard drive on e-bay for 30 or 40 bucks if i get wasted by a virus


can you please send me these so called wasted by a virus hard drives??? i can allways use spare hard drives!!! because there is not a virus made that damages the hard drive so there still perfectly useable and even most likely cleanable!!!!! Very Happy
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wawadave
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trespasser wrote:
Quote:
I know i could never prove that AV company's are behind it and maybe most are legitimate ... but at the same time its a very lucrative biz and i am sure a virus free internet is the source of many nightmares for their CEO's.


Yep.......you and me are just two people that would be looking for something else to do, imagine the other 60 million in the world doing the same........ Shocked

########

Anyway, things could be progressing into real world privacy wars if this gets more popular.

http://www.nocards.org/

http://www.nocards.org/news/archive1.shtml#backdoor

Quote:
In the UK a woman answered a knock at her door only to find herself arrested and her house searched from top to bottom. Her crime? Placing her own scarf in her handbag. Store security caught the move on camera and mistakenly thought she had stolen the scarf, and then tracked her through her "loyalty" card (The article doesn't state why they
didn't just stop her in the store rather than wait two days to go to her house).


and RFID cards are going to be even worse yet!!!!
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trespasser
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wawadave........

I just read about them tonight........never had an idea that they existed untill just.......... Shocked

Gillett apparently have been marking their products for ages and tesco's are actively using such chips. Only on selected products though (at the moment).........So when we / you have finished getting shot of spam and pop ups here you will soon be able to do it in real life ......... Very Happy

WWWWhhhhhooooaaaaaaa............................stop the ******g world..........iv'e had anough I want to get off..................i'm now starting to get a little worried about the implications of all this "spying", and just for the record i'm goning to cut the tesco's club card up along with the index card, the argos card, and my credit cards.........please feel free to call me paranoid.....and as soon as Staples stores start using these for "consumer trends" i'm going to hand my notice in on the basis of principle.
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webhelper
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

...The 419 Flash Mob, supported by Artists Against 419, has declared war on criminals who host fake bank Web sites in the hope of luring victims to deposit money there. The attacks began Wednesday.

According to Artists Against 419's Web site, "This flash mob is in celebration of Chinese New Year...Our aim is to shut down eight fake bank web sites in less than 48 hours!" ...


Our aim is to shut down eight fake bank

I cannot support, defend or condone that which festers actions that border on the illegal. If we wish to stop the spread of this adware,spyware,hijackings, etc., we must as an Internet community deal with it in nion-violent consumer actions. For those who resort to any form of violence against others are no better than the adware/spyware/maleware groups we seek to stop.

I say no more until later in the next month when I will be putting forth a post entilted "taking the Internet back thru a non-violent consumer revolution".

For those who are new and frustrated by the almost daily increase in adware takeovers, mark my words, anyone who fosters violent action against those who do wrong upon us will only give them the ammo to continue what they are doing.

The webhelper has spoken and I will not rethink my position I put forth here!
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wawadave
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you want to learn about RFID tags than try this link!!
http://www.spywarewarrior.com/viewtopic.php?t=106
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trespasser
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wawa,

Thats frightening................. george orwell could never have guessed his book could be so right.

If it really takes off bigtime we could all be chipped... like it or not, secretly or otherwise.........mmmmmmmm.

I must remember to do a search later for electronic body armour, or at least make me a tin foil helmet.

Laughing
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Obsidian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, tin foil hat and electronic body armor?

You realize the government's probably gonna outlaw anything that can protect privacy if they keep going the way they are right now, right?

No passwords, no tinfoil, no locks, no doors, houses must be made of glass... but I digress.
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trespasser
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll enjoy the hunt..................... hide and seek in the big wide world.....mmmmm.

Beware of the name "verichip"





Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
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MadameX
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin foils hats? Sounds strange, don't it?

When I saw the movie 'Signs' and Mel Gibson came in to find his brother and kids sitting in the living room with those pointly tin foil hats on, I laughed so hard, I started crying.

Not laughing now.....hit's too close to home! Shocked

Deb
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trespasser
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmmmmmmm.......

(useless information)

On my short drive into the town center, I am seen on at least 9 cctv cameras and these are the ones that I can see. What about the ones that you can't see, the ones that are being used "covertly".

Its like living in a goldfish bowl.

Just wait until your clothes are chipped and your walking down the road, advertising boards would be programmed to show you stuff related to information the chips give out. You could be greeted by a sales assistant who could know your name, your favourite brands, other shops you have been into, and what you are looking for. All because these chips can be traced around the store, you will be traced from aisle to aisle. If you pick up any single quantity of items, a database will decipher what quantity is normally picked up. If you do not fit in to the "normal" bracket inteligent software will alert security that you could be shoplifting.

Of course this is all hyperthetical, because we all know that big boy superstores wouldn't do this sort of thing. The polititians and governments wouldn't allow it either.....................would they Question

http://www.nocards.org/
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