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tallbballman21
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:55 pm    Post subject: Firefox or Internet Explorer Reply with quote

Do you guys think i should us Mozilla Firefox, or use Interne explorer? I use IE now but Mozilla has lots of nice features. What do you guys reccomend?
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wawadave
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dumped ie for firefox over two weeks ago. get firefox.
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NetWidow
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know much about Firefox, except some people here seem to love it. I use IE and always have. Don't have any problems with it and I'm used to it so I see no need for change.
As for which is better, depends on who you ask.
JMO Cool
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tallbballman21
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i got firefox but i cant log into spywarewarrior. Whats wrong? it keeps saying invalid PW. Im on IE now
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3162
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try Opera
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huh? its me (tallbballman21) but im using an extension(bugmenot) from firefox because i canr login wihen im on this browser
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3162
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tallballman, what I meant is, try Opera.
I run it here, no problems signing in anywhere.
Free version has an annoying banner ad, and Google set as default search, but you can cripple those if needed.
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tallbballman21
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok i got it working just had to change my PW. Where do i find OPERA?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me think....
Opera.com perhaps?

http://www.opera.com/
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tallbballman21
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohh lol sry i thought opera.com will come up to like some opera show thing
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Taco
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefox + Adblock extension + Cookie Culler Extension = GREAT!

FireFox, hands down. built in popup blocker and without all the IE security holes, tabbed browsing, a whole slew of extensions that just make life easier. sure you might have a few problems trying to veiw a few sites, but that why there's also an IE veiw extension. Any webpage that doesn't view in firefox you can right click and select "veiw this page in IE"
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opera settings:
Only allow requested pop-ups

Personally, I wouldn't view anything in IE except the Critical Updates
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use AdShield, KerioPF, AVG, SpybotSD, System Security Suite, SpywareBlaster, HJT... I have 'no' problems with IE. I keep the system clean (like you have to do no matter what OS or browser you use), and it runs like a champ. Cool I don't understand why every one has such a problem with it. Confused
Please Explain. Smile
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Last edited by NetWidow on Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DeleterFX
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Constant need for security updates, I think IE is best described as The Internet Equivalent to athelete's foot...You constantly have to update your protection OR THE VIRUSES KEEP COMING BACK! IE = Monkey for your back. Firefox = Well-Behaved, secure, useful, great, super-browser! You rarely have to update (just when they release a new build). Tabbed browsing has to be the most useful thing ever (only 1 window open EVER).

Extensions are extremely useful, and themes make your browser not so dull. I've had absoultly 0 trouble with passwords. Seamless transition for me.
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MadameX
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have IE configured in Internet Options right, (ie: cookie restriction) use a good popup blocker, etc., plus download IE spyad, and a hosts file such as MVPS, one shouldn't have many problems.

IE Spyad
MVPS Hosts File

Keeping up with critical updates is important, too.

If I missed something here, feel free to add. I only use IE for updates. I have Firefox, which I use exclusively (except when I absolutely have to use IE). Enhanced with several extensions, it works very well.

Deb
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mikey
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any proxy or tweaker users around here?



Suzi, you ever noticed me in your server logs? I'll bet I'm easy to find. Smile I let the sites I trust know where I am.

I don't let the servers know anything I don't want them to. The online browser tests all come back with no results. I don't see any pop ups that I don't specifically ask for. I see no off site images which means I see very few ads.(AdShield takes care of any fx I don't care to see again by just clicking it away) IE is still my browser of choice and I think some will be surprised when these browsers that are becoming popular are also targeted. Don't misunderstand, I do like deversity and it makes the scam jobs that much harder to pull off. I just think some users suffer from a false sense of security. All connectables need to be maintained and guarded. All you got to do is learn how to do it.
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tallbballman21
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another good extension from FireFox is bugmenot. I used up a little posts ago.
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NetWidow
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeleterFX wrote:
Constant need for security updates, I think IE is best described as The Internet Equivalent to athelete's foot...You constantly have to update your protection OR THE VIRUSES KEEP COMING BACK! IE = Monkey for your back.


I have to check for updates on SSD and others on a regular basis, so checking for IE is just another routine. The fact that IE is so popular that it is a bigger target just isn't enough to make me change.

Come on guys, break out the big guns. Give me irrefutable evidence that IE is as bad as you believe it is.

Oh yea, I've never had a virus or trouble getting to sites I want to (at least not because of IE) so as far as I can tell it's all good in IE. Big Thumb Up
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wawadave
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yea, I've never had a virus or trouble getting to sites I want to (at least not because of IE) so as far as I can tell it's all good in IE. Big Thumb Up

never had a virus???
don,t surf much. allways play it safe never been spammed by virus emails or had a social engineered one get by you..

what a sheltered life! lol
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I use this thing for school, to answer the vast number of question my son continually asks each day and to visit these boards. My life is anything but sheltered, it's just that if I know it's going to rain I bring an umbrella. Smile
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wawadave
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It's just that if I know it's going to rain I bring an umbrella"

when liveing on the net during rainy season this would be wise!
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phase
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say go with Firefox also. I've been using IE up until recently. I downloaded Firefox last week, and have been using it ever since. I only have one problem with it, but it's not a big deal. Whenever somebody sends me a link in AIM, an error screen will pop-up saying that it can't find a program to open the link in, but it still opens with Firefox, so it's weird.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more reason to use Opera...I forgot this one because I use it all the time, by habit.

r-click and set 'reload page every.....'
keeps me logged in without using Windows to remember my passwords
As if I would trust MS to remember my passwords

Rolling Eyes
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wawadave
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3162 wrote:
One more reason to use Opera...I forgot this one because I use it all the time, by habit.

r-click and set 'reload page every.....'
keeps me logged in without using Windows to remember my passwords
As if I would trust MS to remember my passwords

Rolling Eyes


this is irony at its finest! lol
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3162
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dave, Wink

Heading off to sacrifice a Cork to Asclepius shortly.
.........................................^c^ (edited, to bypass the pr0n filter)

BTW, did you notice that there is only one letter difference between Greek and Geek?
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sadiebee
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an analogy-not that I'm biased or anything-just totally ripped out I.E. as a fashion statement.

M$ persisting with the I.E. patches,it's like trying to fill the holes in a sieve with grains of sugar.

Agreed Netwidow,everyone needs to take measures to protect their O.S.You are responsible,you do all that is necessary.Thousands aren't.

I.E. is used by oh..say 89% of Internet Users.A great number of them cannot be bothered to learn about the advanced settings,HOSTS files,proxies or even keep up to date with critical patches..that makes the net a whole lot more risky for all of us.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadiebee

Well said!

But no, it makes the net a whole lot more risky for all of them.
The arbitrary 89%

Most all of us here agree that IE isn't exactly the best browser on Earth, and we all have our opinions as to which browser is safest.

Unfortunately, most webpages are written to conform with the global majority of users. Since 99.99% of the average users buy machines which are pre-loaded with MS products, it is a pure and simple mathematical formula to come to the conclusion that approx 99% of the attacks (on average) are directed towards MS

For example, there is a proof-of-concept virus 'out there' for Macs.


Of much greater concern to me, is how to determine if there is a hidden browser hijack in Opera, Firefox or others.
It's only a matter of time before some script kiddie messes around with us too, if they haven't already.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I want to start off by saying I'm not trying to insult or tick anyone off, I just don't know of any other way to say this.

Here goes: It seems to me that if the majority of users use IE and this is a help site, it would make more sense to help people make IE safer rather then just say it's garbage and tell them to get another browser. If the bad guys target IE more then isn't that where we should fight them? Don't we want to take them down, not just put them off? And finally aren't we doing a disservice to the community by making these users believe the other browser's are better just because they aren't as big target?

Prefering a certain browser because of it's features is one thing and personal to each of us.

I also feel the need to point out that the fact that IE has updates makes me feel better about using it because it shows that they are trying to combat the issues as well. We should work with them not against them.

The opinions stated in this post are solely those of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of this board or it's members. Twisted Evil
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phase
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ That's a very good point, and even though I'm not an IE user (anymore), I pretty much agree with what you are saying.
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RiverRat
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another important plus for Foxfire and Opera is they are faster. Important if you are on dialup.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RiverRat
Important if you Fix hijackthis logs too Wink
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herbalist
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Netwidow,
Seen your questions and I have to answer those.
NetWidow wrote:

Come on guys, break out the big guns. Give me irrefutable evidence that IE is as bad as you believe it is.

Start with Mozilla being much more resistant to drive by installs than IE6. No need for a separate cookie or popup manager. Mozilla has good ones built in. Encryption of passwords and forms. The last vulnerability found in Mozilla was fixed faster than MS has ever moved. Java can be disabled at a single click. Cookies, passwords, and popup permissions can be configured on a per site basis. Uses far less of your systems resources than IE6, which can be critical if you use a resource hungry security program like NIS. If your browser runs you out of resources, your security programs can fail to work properly too. That's the short list.

NetWidow wrote:
Here goes: It seems to me that if the majority of users use IE and this is a help site, it would make more sense to help people make IE safer rather then just say it's garbage and tell them to get another browser. If the bad guys target IE more then isn't that where we should fight them? Don't we want to take them down, not just put them off? And finally aren't we doing a disservice to the community by making these users believe the other browser's are better just because they aren't as big target?


A very large percentage of the problems people get from the internet are due to the holes in internet explorer. If most of them were using Firefox or Mozilla there'd be a lot less "remove adware" and "hijack this" posts to deal with. With Mozilla, I can go to sites that have exploited internet explorer, and by using the domain inspector, determine what is being done to do so, and where the stuff is actually being loaded from. I'm sorry, but IE6s weaknesses are the primary reason sites like this are so busy.
By the way. People are trying to exploit Mozilla, and finding it much harder to do. A lot of very talented people work on Open Source programs like Mozilla and Firefox, and they do it because they want to, not because they're paid to. In their forums, they ask for suggestions regarding what people want in the program, and add it. Ever heard of Microslop doing that?
One last item regarding Mozilla/Firefox security:
Check this out.
I haven't had any adware/ malware, virus or trojans since switching to Mozilla. A lot of other users can also make that claim. It's really as good as people say it is. It's approximately 1/3 faster on my 98 unit with a dialup. Running IE6, I had to reboot every couple hours. With Mozilla, I can run it all day with no problems.
Rick
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NetWidow
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

herbalist wrote:
I haven't had any adware/ malware, virus or trojans since switching to Mozilla. A lot of other users can also make that claim.

But I can make that claim without switching.
herbalist wrote:
It's approximately 1/3 faster on my 98 unit with a dialup. Running IE6, I had to reboot every couple hours. With Mozilla, I can run it all day with no problems.

I personally only shutdown when I’m moving my laptop to another location (like school) or reboot when required by an app install or update. I know mikey leaves his on 24/7 except when required by an app install or update.
Since I live in the middle of nowhere with ancient phone lines there isn’t much I can do to improve my speed.

herbalist wrote:
No need for a separate cookie or popup manager. Mozilla has good ones built in.

Interesting, but don’t I still have to configure it for my personal preferences? I quite frankly don’t mind ‘getting’ to choose my own tools to do the job I want them to do. The user still needs to know the ‘how, what and why’ of any app or tool they use, as well as the vulnerabilities of the internet in general, in order to use them properly. However, this whole ‘mozilla will do it all for you’ thinking that’s being spread around is going to cause complacency. And when firefox /mozilla does become the bigger target and it takes mozilla time to came up with solutions because of the enormity and complexity of the problems, what then?

MS may not be perfect but I’ve still seen no proof it’s as bad as all that. Again more users bigger target. And as for ‘Mozilla Security Bug Bounty Program’, sounds good but how long will it last when mozilla is targeted like MS? They’ll go broke. Not really fair to use that against MS.

The opinions stated in this post are solely those of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of this board or it's members. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Netwidow,
What kind of proof do you require? A list of sites that can do drive by installations on IE but not Mozilla? A virus or attachment that can execute in OE but not Mozilla's mailhandler? One item I didn't list before is that Mozilla doesn't use ActiveX, something often exploited in IE6.
Most of the newer units don't have a problem with long running periods. With the older 98 units, that was another story. Mine has 64mb of RAM and a 366mhz Pentium II, and old box. My wife is a jigsaw addict. I found a couple sites with them for her. IE6 would run out my resources after 2 puzzles or 2 hours of browsing. Didn't matter what else was running. Every page that was opened dropped the available resources, and you didn't get them back by closing the page. Shutting down IE6 when they got low didn't help either. Rebooting was the only way to get the resources back. Mozilla doesn't do that. If I browse for 6 hours, I have almost as much resource as when I started. When I shut Mozilla off, I have it all back. Don't take this part too lightly. One time when I was also using NIS2002, I was browsing and hit a driveby install page. The popups drained off my resources, NIS crashed, and I had a virus. The first and only time. I've been back to that page with Mozilla, and a cleaned up system, with no problems.
Mozilla's configuration is very straight forward, much more user friendly than IE6. My website, the link at the bottom, has a lot of screenshots of Mozilla setup. Most of the "managers" can be easily accessed from the tools menu or the icons displayed in the lower right corner of the screen. The cookie manager actually uses the sites privacy policy or lack of one, based on your choices. With popups, by default they're blocked. You can change this to suit. I forgot to add this site to the "allow list", something I got reminded of when the popup alert warned me that this site was trying to open a popup. It was a PM. A simple click on the tools menu, down to popup manager, and click on "allow popups from this site" is all that was needed. The whole program is that easy. It's written and maintained by people who want something better and know how to make it so. Besides, would you rather configure just one program, Mozilla, or several: IE6, a popup blocker, cookie manager, etc?
As for the antique phone lines, if you're stuck with such a setup, you'll find that's where Mozilla is really good. I use a very cheap service from the local public library. The fastest connection I ever get is 45,533, usually somewhere in the mid to high 30,000s. At those connection speeds, Mozilla opens pages 1/3 to 1/2 faster than IE6. I hadn't used IE6 in some time, and had basically taken Mozilla's speed for granted. The last time I used IE6, it well reminded me just how slow it was.
I can understand your reluctance to change, wanting proof. A lot of people don't trust Open Source. They're afraid that someone will slip in bad code or a back door, etc. There's far too many people looking at it and testing it for that to happen. It's actually far more likely in products whose code isn't released. Nobody but the owners and their paid employees, who are told what to write, know what's there. Personally, I don't trust or believe Microslop. AFAIC, all they want is total domination and user control. They're getting quite concerned about Open Source. It's my hope that Open Source will win out so we'll continue to have choices, based on what we want as opposed to what Bill Gates wants.
You want proof? Download Mozilla and try it out. The uninstaller works properly. You don't have to make it your default browser. Run it for a while. If you've never used a tabbed browser, you're in for a treat. You can have as many different screens open as you want, in one window, and switching between them is so easy. I often use mine for research on medicinal plants and their conventional equivalents. It's not unusual for me to have 20 different sites accessed at one time along with an image program, Open Office, an IM program, plus my usual running tasks. I would have never got away with that using IE6. I tried and ran out of resources every time. Having a line of tabs under the toolbar, with each having the page/site name on it makes a task like that so much easier.
Plug-ins are available for all the common formats right from the help menu. My website was made with the Composer component of Mozilla, and I know very little about HTML. Its composer is equal to some costing plenty, and is simple to use.
I've installed in on machines for people who aren't computer savvy, the kind that know how to turn it on and get in trouble from what they don't know can happen. It took them less than a week each to make it their default browser. About half have asked me to lock out IE6, their idea, not mine. You can even get skins that will make it look and feel like Internet Explorer, minus the holes and slowness, to make the change almost unnoticable. I used to think Internet Explorer was all there was, and for some time, that was true. I tried Mozilla before I knew much of anything about how a browser worked. I've never regretted it. If you're concerned about where to get help with problems with Mozilla, they have their own forums too, which are good. I'm sure there's enough users here to field any questions anyway.
Noticed you mentioned school. I don't know if you're a student or not. If so, or if you use an office program, take a look at Open Office, another excellent example of Open Source. It handles all the common formats and does most of what MS office does. It's free, like all Open Source programs. If you use an office program, it's well worth a look.
At the risk of sounding political, which I am, Open Source software is one of the biggest things that stand between the average computer user and the companies like Microslop and Adobe, who think they should be telling us what we need. You take them, and a few small companies out of the picture, and we'll have a choice of one, the big, self centered, money hungry giants who could care less about us, except for our wallets.
Rick
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NetWidow
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Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Last Visit: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Empty Space

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, breath. Wow that was alot and it's late so I'll probably respond more tomorrow.
For now 2 things:
1. Tab browsing is a personal preference and should be portrayed as much. I have nothing against recommending a product due to personal preference as long as it's made clear as such.
2. Unless they've changed Open Office and all the others recommended to me over the past couple years are missing the one thing I use and love most about MSWord 'Readability Statistics'. You find me another word processor that does that I'll definitely give it a try.
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Nick
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Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Last Visit: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 3913
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not underestimate the power of tabbed browsing. I was a skeptic until I started using it. Now the concept of opening an entire window to view a page is weird to me.
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Eldar
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Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Last Visit: 06 Nov 2006
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Location: Vilvoorde (Belgium)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To NetWidow & other hardcore fans of IE

I've been a long time user of IE and liked it, until I discovered all the security risks involved in using it. Confused

I started looking for another browser and found Opera & Firefox. Tried both browsers and after six months decided to buy Opera.

It's also a secure browser and can be used for free, if you don't mind the ads. By buying Opera the ads are eliminated and you get more room to put your most used bookmarks. You can configure it to your needs, so if you don't use certain features you can remove them.

What I really like about it is the tabbed browsing, secure passwords, popup blocking, cookies preferences, easy adding bookmarks to your bookmark panel (Open bookmarks - drag icon with url to bookmarks folder and drop it). It has built-in Notes, which I adore using when replying to topics or to copy information from a website. I don't use the email client, but that's my preference.

Firefox as well as Flashpeak Slimbrowser are also installed on my system, but still I like Opera more. I won't return to using IE, but I've to use it for my online banking and that's all.

IMHO For me IE is history since even the government advises people to use the above secure browsers to eliminate these important security issues. You're entitled to stick to your point of view, as I do to mine. One way or another MS is losing on all fields.

Eric Wink
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Last edited by Eldar on Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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herbalist
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Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Last Visit: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 726
Location: northern Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldar wrote:
IMHO For me IE is history since even the government advises people to use the above secure browsers to eliminate these important security issues. One way or another MS is losing on all fields.


And that is the best news of all. MS needs to go, or learn that there's some things more important than their profits.
Rick
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angeldust
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Last Visit: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 22
Location: T.O.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Avant Browser: an IE shell tab browser with built in adblocker, popup blocker, etc.
@ http://avantbrowser.com one guy developed & maintains it & it's free (but donations greatly appreciated). ( no interest in this one either 3162 other than a supmod at it's forum Laughing .)
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Nick
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Last Visit: 15 Jul 2014
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Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aww, scared Netwidow away... Sad

The main problem with IE is Active X and the lax default security settings. Since most people don't even know how to change or why to change the security settings, they are vulnerable.

One of the best things about Firefox/Mozilla or any other browser is that they don't have Active X and the equivelant security settings are better.

So for the typical user, IE is bad.
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