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effluvial
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:12 am    Post subject: Infected through Yahoo? Reply with quote

Confused
Somehow my browser got hijacked again this morning by Internet Optimizer; I also found Bargain Buddy on my computer. I successfully cleaned everything. The thing I'm wondering about is that all of the files had been created today and the only places that I visited this morning were several Yahoo! message boards. Does anybody know if how one can get infected through Yahoo! and if this is common? Or, was a loader like Trickler somehow installed previously?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes you can be infected by just visiting a web page . whitch ones very some seem to stay constantly infecting .check out the section on tools and links here. there are programs that will block curant infected sites.
http://spywarewarrior.com/index.php?c=11
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effluvial
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"yes you can be infected by just visiting a web page ."

Unfortunately, I'd been aware of this since I'd had to disinfect the computers of many friends...up until about three weeks ago, my own computer never been infected. The thing is, I'd always thought that these scumware programs had to be deliberate on the part of a particular site, so I was surprised when I seemed to have gotten one from Yahoo!. Can someone do this (cause a scumware program to be downloaded and installed) without a site's knowledge?
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suzi
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can someone do this (cause a scumware program to be downloaded and installed) without a site's knowledge?


It is possible; usually it's from an infected banner ad I think, from affiliates of scumware companies. I've seen reports of that from people who were hijacked. It seems doubtful that it would happen from an ad on Yahoo though.

It's very possible, though, that a web surfer could have picked up a some malicious code from another infected site with a time delay built in, which would make it seem like the infection came from a different site, i. e. Yahoo.

See this document for examples:

http://www.cdt.org/privacy/20040210cdt.pdf (PDF document)

This is the CDT's complaint against SpyWiper and Spy Deleter filed with the FTC earlier this year. It describes the use of time-delayed code used for hijacking.
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effluvial
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah! Time delay. That's confirms my suspicians. I downloaded a couple of shareware applications last night. I thought I was careful to click the "X" to close the pop-up windows that appeared, rather than "yes", "no" or "ok". I guess there could have been some sort of "onclose" command. I guess I have things like VBA to thank for the misery. Thanks.
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3162
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typically, a 'drive-by download' has to be precipitated.
That means, a click. that is all the permission that the scumbags need, to install a small program (such as a transponder) onto your machine.
Once loaded, that mini-prog can call out and get another small prog at its convenience. Etc, ad-infinitum, unless stopped.

One of the latest *tricks* is to embed a clickable gif image with a time-delay loader, into a webpage.

The webpage loads first, and very shortly therafter (depending on your connection speed) the clickable gif (apparantly) loads on top of the webpage in a manner which appears to be a warning from Microsoft.
It has all the traditional WinXP Colors and characteristics.

However, the entire gif image is clickable, including the - [] amd x
So...when you *think* you are clicking out of a pop-up, you are actually agreeing to a drive-by download.

I can attest to this from personal experience. I use Win2kPro and even my mouse wears a condom, but the clickable Gif still appears in Standard WinXP format. (Fortunately, I do not use IE as a browser)
Here is a perfect example (this may, or may not appear for you. If it does, do NOT click on the Gif, just close the page in its entirity!
http://*www.2-spyware.com/parasite-tv-media-display.html
* inserted for idiots. Remove it from the URL at your own peril!

Note: This may not be duplicable.
Standard disclaimers apply.
Remove * at your own risk.
All liability is solely the responsibility of the purveyors of http*://www.2-spyware.com
* inserted for those who were stupid enough to remove it the first time Wink
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effluvial
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads-up on the gif trick; I hadn't considered that before. I've passed the info onto my friends.

I don't suppose that you can give the 411 on alchem.exe, preinstt.exe, and twaintec.dll. I found these on my computer and got rid of them...I had to boot to safemode to get rid of twaintec.dll (along with the corresponding *.inf and *.ini files).
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3162 wrote:

However, the entire gif image is clickable, including the - [] amd x
So...when you *think* you are clicking out of a pop-up, you are actually agreeing to a drive-by download.


What would happen if you right-clicked & closed the popup from the bottom tab (darn, I always forget what that area is called - between Start and the clock at the bottom)? This is what I have been doing to the popups that sneak past the Google & Yahoo! toolbars.
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3162
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What would happen if you right-clicked & closed the popup from the bottom tab


It isn't a pop-up. It is embedded code in the webpage.
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Harry Letterman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3162 wrote:
Quote:
What would happen if you right-clicked & closed the popup from the bottom tab


It isn't a pop-up. It is embedded code in the webpage.


You are right, of course, but they still "seem" like popups. So, if I get a "new window" (for lack of a better description) from someplace like NoAdware how should I close it?
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3162
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just close the entire window, the way you would close any window. As long as you don't try to close the one which appears to be a pop-up, the whole thing will just close out.
Or at least, it should. Until they come up with another trick.

Or, as you mentioned earlier, r-click and close the window from Tray.
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Moore
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctrl+W also works in IE browsers to close popup windows / pages , so then you dont have to worry about clicking in the wrong spot.
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jurgita
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:40 am    Post subject: regular nonsences from so called experts Reply with quote

Mister, As an expert in security field , dont mislead the readers:
In http://www.2-spyware.com:
1. there is no any time delay tricks. there is no tricks at all. just ad.
2. The close corner button closes the advert and this advert doesnt appear second time per session.
3. there is no any drive by download in the ad. Its just a link to other page. You need to click dowload or purchase buttons to download the program.

How can you call yourself expert in security if you are talking such noncenses??



Quote:
Typically, a 'drive-by download' has to be precipitated.
That means, a click. that is all the permission that the scumbags need, to install a small program (such as a transponder) onto your machine.
Once loaded, that mini-prog can call out and get another small prog at its convenience. Etc, ad-infinitum, unless stopped.

One of the latest *tricks* is to embed a clickable gif image with a time-delay loader, into a webpage.

The webpage loads first, and very shortly therafter (depending on your connection speed) the clickable gif (apparantly) loads on top of the webpage in a manner which appears to be a warning from Microsoft.
It has all the traditional WinXP Colors and characteristics.

However, the entire gif image is clickable, including the - [] amd x
So...when you *think* you are clicking out of a pop-up, you are actually agreeing to a drive-by download.

I can attest to this from personal experience. I use Win2kPro and even my mouse wears a condom, but the clickable Gif still appears in Standard WinXP format. (Fortunately, I do not use IE as a browser)
Here is a perfect example (this may, or may not appear for you. If it does, do NOT click on the Gif, just close the page in its entirity!
http://*www.2-spyware.com/parasite-tv-media-display.html
* inserted for idiots. Remove it from the URL at your own peril!
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Harry Letterman
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: regular nonsences from so called experts Reply with quote

jurgita wrote:

2. The close corner button closes the advert and this advert doesnt appear second time per session.


In all of my run-ins with NoAdware.com (or .net), I have found that this is not the case. I will close the NoAdware window, along with the window that I was visiting when it always comes up. I wait around 30-60 minutes and then open the window that NoAdware seems to be affiliated with and I will soon (within 5 minutes) get a new NoAdware "popup-type" window. Is this considered to be "starting a new session"?

At this point, I have stopped closing the NoAdware window by using the "X" in the corner because I am concerned about "drive-by downloads" (or something very similar).
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jurgita
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: regular nonsences from so called experts Reply with quote

I was talking only regarding 2-spyware.com, because it was given as an example - wrong example.

Quote:

In all of my run-ins with NoAdware.com (or .net), I have found that this is not the case.
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Harry Letterman
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I see what you mean now. Thanks for clarifying. Hint: Sometimes it is better to edit what you are quoting so that only the pertinent matter (e.g. what you are responding to) is visible.
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3162
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How can you call yourself expert in security if you are talking such noncenses??

If you look over to the left, you will see quite clearly that I am not an Expert, nor do I pretend to call myself one.

On the other hand, any form of aggressive, underhanded advertising is, in my book, unacceptable.
The tactics to which I refer have forced me to look very closely at the URL's presented by Google (or whichever search engine I happen to use).
The end result of which is that I now by-pass all results which refer to www.2-spyware.

In plain English, there is no way in hell that I would trust any advice given from there.
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suzi
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In http://www.2-spyware.com:
1. there is no any time delay tricks. there is no tricks at all. just ad.
2. The close corner button closes the advert and this advert doesnt appear second time per session.
3. there is no any drive by download in the ad. Its just a link to other page. You need to click dowload or purchase buttons to download the program.


That may be true, but in my opinon the ad shown here is very deceptive with a false warning:

http://www.2-spyware.com/file-hshta-exe.html



Why such aggressive, deceptive advertising?
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3162
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya Suzi,
The one thing that alerted me to that particular form of deception is that I run 2k and my windows are old-style.
It is obviously designed to lure and dupe XP users.

The point, of course, is that it is typical of false advertising. Ergo, it is untrustworthy.

Just my opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: regular nonsences from so called experts Reply with quote

Jurgita:

The ad on that page is deceptive in at least three ways:

1. The image is designed to give the appearance of a Windows system notice box of some sort. In fact, it is not an actual Windows system notice; it is an ad, but the ad attempts to disguise that.

2. If you click anywhere but the corner X "button," the false "test" or "scan" "runs" -- in other words, if you click the "Cancel" button, which should CLOSE the box, the "test" still "runs."

3. The "test" results themselves are deceptive, as they couple information gleaned from the browser headers with arguably false, speculative information to give the impression that the web site (your web site) has specific knowledge or information about the stability of the user's computer, which is false and deceptive.

In a previous post here you claimed that Enigma Software had a practice of removing affiliates for unsavory behavior. What would Enigma Software think of associating with a site such as yours that uses the same underhanded, obnoxious, deceptive, misleading advertising as many other run-of-the-mill scam artists on the Net?

By the way folks: that ad is easily enough blocked by any banner ad blocking program, because it's just an image that's placed in a kind of "absolute" position through normal old HTML. Just add an entry for the image itself (2SPYRR1C.gif), and the ad won't appear.

Eric L. Howes
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: regular nonsences from so called experts Reply with quote

jurgita wrote:
Mister, As an expert in security field , dont mislead the readers:


lol lmao rofl pmsl hahahaha baaawhahahaha jurgita
ya right!!!!!!!!!
Your an expert all right its in the crapware scamming game. a true and typical conman!! Evil or Very Mad
If you would have had even the slightest bit of class which you don,t you would not be harassing Suzi!
But the low life trans that you are you have to stoop so low you could walk under an ant!
And i allso know you pay some one to write out your messages here for you!
If your an expert than the iq rating for the category has dropped to the mid teens.
Why don,t you go slither back under your rock!
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jurgita
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 pm    Post subject: explanation and questions needs to be answered Reply with quote

Quote:
Why such aggressive, deceptive advertising?


Hi Suzi,
Why are you so agressive to the advertising at all? How many so called "deceptive", "agressive" ads do you see on TV? how many so called "deceptive", "agressive" do you see on Yahoo, on Google as a text ads?
You can find thousands of adverts in Google ads as a deceptive, does that makes google a BAD page?

First of all it is not me who created this ad.
Secondly I guess we see it not as bad as you see. Any reader can choose what to do and they are not forced to purchase or download anything.
Third, it is not a secret, the thing with advertisements is simple: pay the same amount of money and sure we will promote spywarewarrior in our sites.

Hi 3162,
Quote:
The end result of which is that I now by-pass all results which refer to www.2-spyware.


you are doing great!! Questions:
if you dont like advert on TV you switch channel too? Smile No matter how interesting or valuable program is? And adverts makes you decide about trust?

Hi Eric,

Quote:
1. The image is designed to give the appearance of a Windows system notice box of some sort. In fact, it is not an actual Windows system notice; it is an ad, but the ad attempts to disguise that.


I'll repeat: its not us who created the ad, but:
if the ad is popup style, it should look somehow, if they'd made old style, you should say the same thing also. So its not intentional for win xp users.

Quote:
2. If you click anywhere but the corner X "button," the false "test" or "scan" "runs" -- in other words, if you click the "Cancel" button, which should CLOSE the box, the "test" still "runs."


You are right here. This must be corrected. we'll do.

Quote:
3. The "test" results themselves are deceptive, as they couple information gleaned from the browser headers with arguably false, speculative information to give the impression that the web site (your web site) has specific knowledge or information about the stability of the user's computer, which is false and deceptive.


Correction - NOT my website. The test results are not within 2-spyware.com domain. I would like to ask you the same question I asked suzi:
You can find thousands of adverts in Google ads as a deceptive, does that makes google a BAD page?

Quote:
In a previous post here you claimed that Enigma Software had a practice of removing affiliates for unsavory behavior. What would Enigma Software think of associating with a site such as yours that uses the same underhanded, obnoxious, deceptive, misleading advertising as many other run-of-the-mill scam artists on the Net?


Enigma has nothing to do with this AD. Dont mix. Again Why are you so agresive agains adverts at all? if you treat adverts the way you treat them at the moment, you need to include to spyads not only 2-spyware.com site, but yahoo, google, cnet and the others, they alse promote spyhunter, they also have thousands advertisers and lots of with deceptive content.
Tell me whats so wrong in 2-spyware.com site to include it to spyads? I'll try to fix if arguments will be strong. Because if you include it just because of the advertisements its a bit weird, why you dont include giants like yahoo, google and others Smile.

To all others:
I'm not here to fight. I'm not here to harass Suzi. She does a great thing, but sometimes exaggerates. I'd really want to live in pease or in colaboration with Suzi and Eric.
They are great people, trying to do great thing. They fight agains spyware. we fight against it too. The difference between us is only that their sources are not driven by ads.
Eric, Suzi, Why is so? why we cant collaborate? because of ads?

Personally to Suzi. OTHERS DO NOT READ.
I really dont understand your position Suzi: to search for more and more enemies against you. Every publish without proper arguments about one or another program or website ofends their creators and offends a lot if its wrong acuse or early acuse. You should contact them about the problems you see, before any publish. try to look how they see the situation, try to know their opinion, maybe something can be fixed without publishing offending information. In that case you can get much less enemies, much more partners and much more facts.
Suzi, I'm not your enemy... i just want to tell you what I got some emails about you. Somebody dislikes you very much, they know everything about you, your family, your adresses, family adresses, phones, work places, cars you drive, criminal records, police records, everything you can imagine, even pictures of you... I guess every person who is offended by you got these emails.
I would not feel so secure... What if somebody really hates you, can you imagine what they can do? Its Real world, not a Virtual.
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eburger68
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jurgita:

I'm sorry, but your excuses don't cut it -- not by a long shot.

You wrote:

Quote:
I'll repeat: its not us who created the ad, but: if the ad is popup style, it should look somehow, if they'd made old style, you should say the same thing also. So its not intentional for win xp users.


The pop-up is being spawned from YOUR site. That makes you responsible. There may be other problems with that pop-up, but the fact that the pop-up attempts to falsely give the impression of a Windows system notice means that it's deceptive. There is no excuse for this type of advertising, and web sites that purport to offer users help with spyware problems should not be using this kind of advertising.

Quote:
Correction - NOT my website. The test results are not within 2-spyware.com domain. I would like to ask you the same question I asked suzi: You can find thousands of adverts in Google ads as a deceptive, does that makes google a BAD page?


The original pop-up that eventually leads to the "results" page is spawned from your web site -- that makes you responsible.

I am an equal opportunity critic. That's why you'll find me decrying aggressive, deceptive advertising no matter where it appears. In fact, when I was at the FTC's Spyware Workshop back in April, I gave Google's attorney an earful about the deceptive "spybot" advertising that used to appear regularly on Google's "Sponsored Links." You also must have noticed that I have a whole section about Google advertising on the "Rogue/Suspect Anti-Spyware" page.

So the fact that other web sites out there might be engaging in unsavory behavior isn't an excuse -- at least not in my eyes -- for what's transpiring on your site. Moreover, that your site presents itself as an anti-spyware site means that users have a right to hold you to a higher standard.

Jurgita, that kind of advertising only does your web site and your reputation damage. And I can't imagine it will do any great wonders for sales and referrals from your web site either -- at least not in the long run. And even though those ads may not be for SpyHunter, I really do have to wonder what Enigma Software would think of those ads appearing at one of its affiliate's web sites, because the behavior of your web site necessarily and unavoidably reflects on them.

Do yourself and your web site visitors the favor of ditching those ads.

Eric L. Howes
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jurgita
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do yourself and your web site visitors the favor of ditching those ads.


thinking of that. Looking for better advertisers. let me know if you have something to recommend.

Quote:
Jurgita, that kind of advertising only does your web site and your reputation damage. And I can't imagine it will do any great wonders for sales and referrals from your web site either -- at least not in the long run.


believe me site does great results.

Anyway: you didnt answer me regarding google, yahoo. etc.
enter to google "remove spyware" and take a look at paid listings. Most of advertisers are in your spyads list, most sites are deceptive and much worse than mine. the same is with other giants.

So what makes you the difference? why you dont include google to your list?

Paid results are not always untrustworthy: example aluria
regular results are also not always trusworthy: example our site (because you think its BAD, most of traffic comes from google and we dont use adwords)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jurgita:

You wrote:

Quote:
Anyway: you didnt answer me regarding google, yahoo. etc. enter to google "remove spyware" and take a look at paid listings. Most of advertisers are in your spyads list, most sites are deceptive and much worse than mine. the same is with other giants.


I did, Jurgita. You just didn't read my response very carefully. As I said earlier, I protest slippery, unfair, deceptive advertising wherever I find it -- including Google.

The advertising on your site stands out, however, because the original pop-up is spawned from your site and appears in the context of your site. The plain text advertising in Google's Sponsored Links may lead to unsavory advertising at other web sites, but Google takes pains to separate itself from those ads. Your site does not. Even with Google, though, I point out the problems with that advertising -- thus the Google section on the "Rogue/Suspect Anti-Spyware" page; thus, my pleas directly to representatives of Google to stop the worst of the advertising that appeared on their site.

Quote:
Paid results are not always untrustworthy: example aluria

regular results are also not always trusworthy: example our site (because you think its BAD, most of traffic comes from google and we dont use adwords)


You're right that there are no absolutes, and that there are some trustworthy results among the paid search results and some untrustworthy ones among the "regular search results." But I chose my words carefully, never speaking in terms of absolutes:

Quote:
The "regular search results" are those results that are ranked highly and are popular among actual users. For the most part, these are trustworthy. "Sponsored Links," by contrast, are paid for by vendors themselves. These "paid search results" are generally not trustworthy and should be avoided.


Note the qualifiers "for the most part" and "generally." As a general rule, users are much better off paying attention to the "regular search results" (at least on the term "spyware").

"They all do it" doesn't give you an excuse to do it. And even if you're seeing great results now, the long run prospects can't be good, because that kind of advertising is utterly corrosive to the reputation of web sites such as yours.

Eric L. Howes
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suzi
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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Last Visit: 28 Nov 2014
Posts: 10335
Location: at the beach

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jurgita,

Quote:
Hi Suzi,
Why are you so agressive to the advertising at all? How many so called "deceptive", "agressive" ads do you see on TV? how many so called "deceptive", "agressive" do you see on Yahoo, on Google as a text ads?
You can find thousands of adverts in Google ads as a deceptive, does that makes google a BAD page?


You are right in saying there are aggressive and deceptive ads on other websites and on TV. I happen to be interested in spyware because of my past experiences with being hijacked and having my computer taken over. I don't like that kind of advertising anywhere. And I agree with you that Google has some bad practices too. In fact, I've written about Google's practices on my blog in a couple of places.

I have a few ads for Aluria's product on some of my web pages but that's it. I'm not into this for money. I do care about the experiences of internet users who have been deceived and had their computers infected. To me it's an ethical matter. Deception is wrong in any context, not just spyware or anti-spyware products.

Quote:
I'm not here to fight. I'm not here to harass Suzi. She does a great thing, but sometimes exaggerates. I'd really want to live in pease or in colaboration with Suzi and Eric. <snip>
Eric, Suzi, Why is so? why we cant collaborate? because of ads?


Jurgita, I have nothing personally against you. I have written about other sites and other deceptive ads besides yours. I admit that I was wrong to ban you previously. That was an error in judgment on my part and I do apologize. I hope you will accept my apology.

Quote:
Personally to Suzi. OTHERS DO NOT READ.
I really dont understand your position Suzi: to search for more and more enemies against you. Every publish without proper arguments about one or another program or website ofends their creators and offends a lot if its wrong acuse or early acuse. You should contact them about the problems you see, before any publish. try to look how they see the situation, try to know their opinion, maybe something can be fixed without publishing offending information. In that case you can get much less enemies, much more partners and much more facts.
Suzi, I'm not your enemy... i just want to tell you what I got some emails about you. Somebody dislikes you very much, they know everything about you, your family, your adresses, family adresses, phones, work places, cars you drive, criminal records, police records, everything you can imagine, even pictures of you... I guess every person who is offended by you got these emails.
I would not feel so secure... What if somebody really hates you, can you imagine what they can do? Its Real world, not a Virtual.


Jurgita, I believe you that you are not my enemy. If I have offended you or others with my postings on my blog or this forum, I am willing to talk/email with them to discuss their concerns. I will make correrctions and retractions if I am in the wrong. But I would need to know what their concerns are and who they are in order to do that. I will send you a private messagw with my email address so you can email me that information. Then I will review the concerns.

Regards,

Suzi
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Former Microsoft MVP 2005-2009, Consumer Security
Please do not PM or Email me for personal support. Post in the Forums instead and we will all learn. Smile
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