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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Websites forbidding Firefox users.... Reply with quote

http://whyfirefoxisblocked.com/

Fark had a liosting for another site that redirects to this one.

Their reasoning is that you are robbing them if you adblock their popups and banner ads.

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=3007700
The fark thread about it all.

I ad posted my opinion on this one.

If they have a service such as plumbing, painting or goods for sale, I would happily pay money for goods or services rendered.

If the point of their website is just to do pageviews for ads, I will pass on them. I refuse to click or patronize banner or popup ads to begin with.

The website above makes an asinine claim of copyright infringement of viewing their site without the ads being a deerivative infringing work.

My solution is simple, I simply will not patronize their site. I make no infringing work, so there is no problem. They feel my business is not important and I can take it elsewhere instead. Other websites would be happy for me to spend cash on goods and services there.


Questions, opinions? This one is an interesting discussion topic, methinks...
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh. give me a break. This such utter nonsense:

Quote:
Software that blocks all advertisement is an infringement of the rights of web site owners and developers.


I guess they don't think that users have any right to control what's being displayed on their own machines. Rolling Eyes

That same kind of nonsense has been brought up about cookies before. The NAI claimed that anti-spyware programs removing cookies was doing essentially the same thing.

http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1496&wit_id=2092
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. They don't get my business acting that way. Sort of anthemic to a business who is trying to make money. You don't get business by alienating your customers.

The vote is with the dollar. I take my business elsewhere and if anyone asks me about that idiot, I give them an earful.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I surf with Firefox, I have NoScript and AdBlock Plus.
If I find a site that I can't view, then it is a site that I won't be going back to !!!
I will not be turning them off or using a different browser .

I think they may have to change their minds when people are not visiting any longer Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katana wrote:
I surf with Firefox, I have NoScript and AdBlock Plus.
If I find a site that I can't view, then it is a site that I won't be going back to !!!
I will not be turning them off or using a different browser .

I think they may have to change their minds when people are not visiting any longer Laughing


That's two of us then Very Happy

If it's a choice between access to a site or being bombarded with Ads, I'm afraid with most sensible surfers it's always gonna be Auf Wiedersehen site.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is the stupidest thing i've seen since the last stupidest thing i've ever seen. i already got kicked off a site yesterday because of this and wondered what it was all about so thanks for the fark link. i think i'll have to rant about this furiously.

/ edit - ranty mc rantalot.
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Caranthir
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is frikkin' stupid. I mean, who even needs AdBlock Plus when we can make a simple modification to the HOSTS file that obliterates virtually ALL advertisements?

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

There's more than one way to solve a problem. The people who made this advert must realize that.
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What site and what happened? Perspiring minds want to know! On Fark, I did some fun ranting all my own.

I think one problem is that too many nitwits out there are lured into having ads due to free cash dangled in front of their faces "make a ton of money by having vierwrers on your website! every time they come over, you make money!". these are also the same nitwits who pay the spamers to send out their ads, not realizing that this screws their reputation in the long run far more than it helps in bringing in anyone.

Sure, some business comes in, spammers do it because if 1 out of every billion clicks, they made money. The others are lost customers. Which is stupid math, IMHO.
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Paperghost, is it ok if I post the link to your blog on Fark for others to read?
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dang, tried to post in your blog, it won't let me. Here is my entry, can you repost it for me? thanks.




Darn good final point; didnt think about it. Firefox users tend to be more savvy about computer safety. Today's IE website is tomorrow's botnet entry point.I still find the site hilarious making false claims about Firefox.

But heck, you know the score, being in the security business. People surfing round with IE because an ad spammer website tells them to is pretty much comitting Internet suicide.

Granted, Firefox is not 100%. Nothing is. But it is still a helluva lot better choice for security than using IE.

And as I posted on another website concerning this, if the website insists that I have to use IE, fine. I go elsewhere. Other sites would be happy for me to spend my money on their products. Word of mouth is also a telling point as well.

Overall, keep safe, people. Plenty of good freeware for safety and information on the net. and good people who give a darn willing to help you along to a safer net experience.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nightmaretony wrote:
Also, Paperghost, is it ok if I post the link to your blog on Fark for others to read?


heh, paste it wherever you like Smile

as for the site that ditched me, it was a random website I came across while trawling for something else - I'll see if I can dig it out, but as I travel next week its probably unlikely I'll be able to get to it in time.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nightmaretony wrote:
dang, tried to post in your blog, it won't let me. Here is my entry, can you repost it for me? thanks.


my site wouldn't let you post? What happened? could you try one more time so I know it wasn't a one off thing? If its a repeat offender I'll have to get it looked at.
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries, was merely curious. I had never run across that situation before, but I tend to go for more exotic site localities and information, rather than the latest movie star or top 40 garbage type of site.

Thanks again. and thanks on the thinking point concerning safety as well. Watch the next wave of spammers use it and keep using it.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll echo what I posted at PGs blog and his Digg article, boycott any of those sites. Someone needs to start a list and make them pay for being a greedy bunch of b4Stards.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use IE because all my proxies were deved for use with MS products. I also use it because I need to stay abreast of issues that affect the majority of my users. I also use it because I like it and it complies with the standards.

With that said, I can also tell you that I don't see anything that I don't want to. The only garbage I see is what I purposely set out to study.

However, I do know a trick that will work to bypass this browser filtering. All you need to do is change the 'user agent' string. No matter which browser I'm using at the time, my user agent is usually portrayed as a 'Mikey' browser.

Since others have already made pages describing the technique, I'll just give you a ref that will show you howto. Ref; http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2004/04/24/changinguseragent.html

Trick them at their own game.

HTH
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a problem with websites displaying ads generally -- they have to support themselves somehow. But if I find a site with pop-ups and/or obnoxious ads, I just don't go back there. I don't block ads except for pop-ups, but I've trained my eyes not to see banner ads for the most part. I never click on them, except there is one site with ads I do check the ads from time to time.

But to say users have no right to block ads is ridiculous and makes no sense. Evil or Very Mad
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people are like that. their set of values tend to differ from the majority, that is all.


Paperghost: got it again, it sez:
Comment Submission Error

Your comment submission failed for the following reasons:

You are not allowed to post comments.



For a good time, I also emailed Mozilla with the links to everything going on. As the saying goes, hilarity will ensue...




EDIT
Looks like they know already, our new buddy has been doing a long running feud in the Adblock developer forum...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/discussions/comments.php?DiscussionID=3060&page=1
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Websites forbidding Firefox users.... Reply with quote

Nightmaretony wrote:
http://whyfirefoxisblocked.com/

Fark had a liosting for another site that redirects to this one.

Their reasoning is that you are robbing them if you adblock their popups and banner ads.

Thanks a ton for this link Tony, that really made my day Laughing

It's always amusing to watch 100% clueproof "adminstrators" addressing problems with embarrasing wooden mallet solutions. The notion that the usage of Firefox would be the only way to stop advertisements is so idiotic that I'm worried about the site owner's state of sanity and would suggest he should consult his doctor and have his head examined. There are a lot of browser independent alternatives, but I'm not going to name then since I assume those experts will surely study their server logs and follow interesting referrers to read what people think of them. So obviously I don't want to give them any ideas and they will have to do a research on their own.

In a similar league (close to the imbecile level) plays the other notion about forum regulars happily accept to be forced fed with annoying pop ups in a browser they don't want to use and patiently stand any inconvenience just to participate in the forum. I believe this has more to do with wishful thinking than with reasonable conclusions. Evidently the site owner values the ad revenue stream higher than the visitors who made this income lucrative for him in the first place. He even cherishes the delusion that he has a legally enforcable right to to annoy visitors with ads and people are stupid enough to take this nonsense at vace value [1].

O.

---
[1] Actually there's no limit to stupidity, so there's got to be someone who gladly accepts this change, but I doubt these people are the ones that make a forum really readable.
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good fun, Notepet. As is, I still get great enjoyment reading every time you dissect a spam and trace it back to who was responsible.

Digg and Slashdot have already been going wild. The webmaster had also been posting in the Firefox forums and getting slashed for it. The majority of people do wish him harm.

Myself, I simply move onto patronize another website and pay for services from someone who isnt insulting me or my choice of security software.

Also, this is still one of the nicest forums concerning this festivity compared to other ones.

Paperghost:" I think I just realized, is your comment thing based on flash? I alwasy block flash, may have forgot it...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot about something
The author also seems to believe that User Agent strings cannot be altered and thus are a reliable method of locking out offending visitors. Firefox, however can be any browser you like it to be, without any additional plug-ins:

All it takes to convert Firefox to IE 7 on WinXP is to type "about:config" and then add the following keys:

key to be created -> type of data -> key value
----------------------------------------------------------
general.appname.override -> string -> Microsoft Internet Explorer
general.appversion.override -> string -> 4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)
general.platform.override -> string -> Win32
general.useragent.override -> string -> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)

As explanation:
The first three values will overwrite what any Javascript would receive while the last one affects the actual user agent string. As a result Firefox is in stealth mode with or without Javascript turned on and renders all those string comparisons done by these experts useless.

O.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nightmaretony wrote:
All good fun, Notepet. As is, I still get great enjoyment reading every time you dissect a spam and trace it back to who was responsible.

Much obliged, Sir Smile. Just trying to contribute to the public part of the forums as well (apart from those not visible to most visitors). Keeping track of evidence may help other people with research of their own and so this is something anyone can benefit from, since different people get different spams.

Quote:
Digg and Slashdot have already been going wild. The webmaster had also been posting in the Firefox forums and getting slashed for it. The majority of people do wish him harm.

Myself, I simply move onto patronize another website and pay for services from someone who isnt insulting me or my choice of security software.

No wonder: If someone makes clear that he doesn't care about you as visitor and contributor what's the point of staying? Contrary to the site owners apparent delusions, there's an alternative for almost anything on the web and visitors are not responsible of accountable for the site owner's revenue (or lack thereof).

Olliver
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Always alternatives you can turn to. The vast flow of the internet information.

That is also why I am giving the webmaster afair shake. I dont use adblock simple because noscript and flashblock do it for me and the single picture ads are decent enough. I won't bother spoofing my Firefox identity. If he wishes to hide his content from Firefox users, that is his right and privilege, just as it is my right and privilege to go elsewhere for what I seek.

What is still hilarious is I have yet to see ANYONE post up what he is selling in terms of goods or services.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nightmaretony wrote:
I won't bother spoofing my Firefox identity. If he wishes to hide his content from Firefox users, that is his right and privilege, just as it is my right and privilege to go elsewhere for what I seek.

Yep, there may be sensible reasons to hide content from Firefox like using IE specific Javascript or VBscript that would not work anywhere else. But there are also good reasons to spoof one's User Agent, like whenever you compiled Firefox yourself. In this case Firefox will use the compilation date and that provides a personal note (in addition to your ip address) that may not go together well with privacy concerns. Windows users have an advantage here, since the stock builds are all of the same date and aren't too talkative about the users CPU type like the Unix counterparts.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity I had to look up the domain registration info. I fully expected it to be DomainsByProxy or some other private domain registration, but I was wrong.

http://whois.domaintools.com/whyfirefoxisblocked.com

That may or may not be the real owner of the domain. According to Google maps, it is a valid addresss. A Google search for the phone number shows others are curious about the domain as well.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%28918%29+697-4039+&btnG=Google+Search

There are 73 other domains hosted on the same IP addresss. Of the half dozen or so I checked, they were registered to the same individual. This is one of the sites:

http://www.dannycarlton.com/

The links at the bottom of the page show some of the other domains on the same IP.
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Nightmaretony
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heard he is the real thing, thereby he would not use domains by proxy. I still have no clue as to what his business he is trying to sell.

I think I posted a link earlier, the firefox adblock forum he came in with his crusade.

I dont think he is an actual spammer, just someone who beleives he can make money on the ads and ignore the social cost to his enterprises.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nightmaretony wrote:
Paperghost:" I think I just realized, is your comment thing based on flash? I alwasy block flash, may have forgot it...


Oh, okay - I just realised you mean the problems are on spywareguide, not Vitalsecurity. Thats up to some random American dude somewhere to sort out then Laughing

Hopefully they can fix it.

As for the firefox guy, his site has felt the bandwidth burn and is currently DOA.

I also find it vaguely humorous that some random site of his somewhere apparently redirects you with his firefox code, but what appears to be his main source of income - his webdesign site - doesn't use it at all.

hmmm.....
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a ludicrous theory. Laughing

If I decide to visit a website, either by typing the url or clicking a link, I have made a conscious decision to visit that site - not the ad-server's url. I do not want to be connected to unknown third-party websites. In most cases, the webmaster has limited control over the adverts being shown on his site. I assume that this webmaster is happy to take full legal responsibility for all links shown on his site. He would then, presumably, be liable for any damage caused to computer systems.

If any webmaster objects to my use of Adblock or Firefox, he only has to let me know. It doesn't need re-direction to a different website showing a page accusing me of being a thief. It just need a page, on the original site which explains, politely, that the content is only available if you are not using Firefox. I then have the choice of switching to IE to view the content or not visiting it. I have no problem with that. I don't use the Firefox IE add-on and, very occasionally, have to switch browsers to view a site. If I want to see it - that's fine. If I'm not that interested , I just wouldn't bother.

I love the idea that blocking all Firefox users "seems to have only minimal financial drawbacks", whereas blocking only those Firefox users who use Adblock or AdBlock Plus has "tremendous financial rewards for honest, hard-working website owners and developers". There seems to be a huge amount of arrogance about the site content if he thinks that anyone would bother - especially after being called a thief. Mad
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the firefox guy, his site has felt the bandwidth burn and is currently DOA.


Digg, DSLReport, Fark and Slashdot all picked up on the story as well. He is pretty much pulling a Roy Pearson in the internet world.
There are some suporting him but they are int he way minority.





I also find it vaguely humorous that some random site of his somewhere apparently redirects you with his firefox code, but what appears to be his main source of income - his webdesign site - doesn't use it at all.

hmmm.....

Agreed. Maybe he wants more business at his website than at his customers? Who knows?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://whyfirefoxisblocked.wordpress.com/

Might want to read the blog from the site...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check this out:

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/whyfirefoxisblocked.com?domain=whyfirefoxisblocked.com&ref=safe&aff_id=0
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